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jhasper



Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 17

176 credits
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:36 am    Post subject: Fold call or raise? Reply with quote

Limit HE. 10 players.

You have KdJh on the button. You call. You, BB, and one other in the pot.
Flop- AcTc6s
BB bets. player 2 raises.
Fold, call or raise?
Honest answers please.

I will give my reason for asking after I get enough responses.
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arcfinn



Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 21

355 credits
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fold, although I assume you're going to give a reason for a call or raise.

Is this limit or NL?
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chris



Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 41

411 credits
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have roughly a 10.7 to 1 shot at hitting your straight on the turn. In order to get the best possible implied odds for taking a shot at trying to hit it on the turn you would need to assume that if you hit your straight, your hand will hold up 100% of the time and both the turn and river will be capped with both players staying in to the end.

If the next two rounds are going to be capped i'd have to assume that the flop will be capped as well so i'll be paying 4sb to win 16bb + the additional bets on the the flop (5sb) and the pot before i call (6sb). That's 43 sb won for a price of 4sb, or 10.75 to 1. As you can see, even in the absolute best possible scenario, with the highest possible payoff where you make your hand and it is never beat by a flush or boat, you still barely have the implied odds to call and see the turn, and you sure as hell don't have the odds to call anything if you miss the turn.

Of course, you can't assume anything nearly as good as the scenario mentioned above. You're implied odds are in reality much lower then that. You have to fold this unless you don't really care about making money and just like to gamble.
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easyguy



Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 11

216 credits
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy fold.
Pot is (assuming BB just calls) 7.5 SB and it costs you 2SB. A reraise behind you by the BB makes it worse.
You have 3 clean outs to the gutshot, so 1 in 16 cards to make your hand 'safely' on the turn.
Catching a pair on the turn puts way too much on the board.
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quickie



Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Posts: 7

105 credits
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fold. you only have the gutshot draw. The fl draws have much better chances, and any set, 2pr has the fh draw.
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pritz



Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 31

267 credits
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fold, with no regrets, for all of the reason's mentioned above.

These sure are sexy hands aren't they?

god how I hate them.
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lork



Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 44

311 credits
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fold. My on-the-spot thinking would be that A) it's a three-outer since the Qc is tainted. B) Based onthe action, only a straight will be good, C) a straight may not be the nuts if the board pairs or three-suits, and D) The board could also end up giving another player the same straight for a split pot.
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heartbreaker



Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Posts: 5

79 credits
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Throw my vote in the fold column as well. You've only got 3 real outs - let it go. And additionally, am I the only person that would not have called PF with this hand since only one other person had limped in?
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ballen



Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 42

456 credits
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I doubt anyone would say anything other than fold, even if there was no flush draw on board. It would be debatable with no flush draw and better pot odds.
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razor



Joined: 21 Dec 2005
Posts: 32

328 credits
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I, for one, would have seen the flop then bailed.

While KJo is subject to domination, the pF action here doesn't send out any danger signals.

Personally, I'll limp these from EP-LP. Sb I complete and usually check from the bb. In the sb & bb, I fold to any raise in front. An exception would be in the bb with a raise from MP to LP and being sure I'll have at least four callers.

Obviously post-flop skill is paramount to continue.

TP is nice but, I really like to have something other than TP to rely on.

Backdoor straights and flushes strengthen the hand. Even then, I need to plan a quick exit if things get hairy.
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H.Reeve



Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 25

605 credits
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Without a doubt fold, if it was only raised once by a small amount I would have been tempted to call, however the hand was re-raised which would lead me to believe that both players possibly have a decent hand. At the moment you don't have anything and you're going for the straight draw, the chances of you getting the straight are rather small, therefore definitely get out at this point.
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