[petronder]

I Was playing 2/4 hold`em last weekend. Drew pocket 4's, but was under the gun (left of the big blind)...table was loose passive, occasional raiser here and there, lots of pre-flop callers (5, 6 at a time)....since I was under the gun and first to go I decided to do what I've been taught in the books, and that's to muck the low pair. Flop brought in another 4, and then the turn, to my extreme mortification, brought the fourth 4. Huge pot (about $50 at least) was eventually won by somebody with two pair. Was I wrong to muck the pocket 4's under the gun, or did I follow good strategy and just got my pee-pee whacked by bad luck? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, all.....

[norshvind]

I think, 44 (like any other pair) is playable in any position if the table is passive and loose enough. About 12% of the time you'll flop a set and get paid big time (allthough time to time you'll lose after flopping a set). The books would advise against playing small pocket pairs, because seeing the flop usually costs 2 or 3 bets and flopping a set isn't going to pay you enough to justify the investment.

[pritz]

if it's loose and passive enough, you could play a pocket pair from any position. if you hit your trips (and all rags are on the flop) with alot of players, you will see alot of action from people calling with just overcards. would have been a good position had you stayed.

[easyguy]

I play small pairs from EP 80%.

Having established a "good" table image, many times just playing from EP discourages some callers, if they are paying attention.

The key, though, is strong post-flop play. If you have no problem getting out when the flop misses you, then I would say play them. The potential for reward is so great. My favorite is when a T, J, or Q hits the board along with my set and its rainbow.

[johnf]

At a no fold em table, I'll play every small pocket pair I have, as long as the circumstances are right.

First, early position. I call, not raise. If you have 44, you want as many people in that pot as possible.

In middle position, if there is a raise, then fold, fold, fold, I'm gone. If it's raise, then 4 or 5 callers, I'll call too because the pot will be a monster.

In late position, if there are a lot of players that merely called, I'll either call or raise, depending on how I feel about the players. An example: yesterday I was at Foxwoods at the $4/$8. I'm on the big blind with 33. There are about 6 callers. I raise. Flop brings my 3, I take a monster. Over about 20 hours, this only happened 2 other times, in which I missed. But even if it had cost me 8 big bets before I tripped one up (statistically what should happen), I still made A LOT more than 8 big bets on that one pot. That's why it's worth it.

One other interesting thing happened with a small pair over the weekend. UTG raises to $8, everone folds to me (33 on the button), I call, the other two fold. Flop comes J 8 4 rainbow. He bets $4, I call. Turn brought more trash, he bets $8, I call. I knew he didn't have it. Read his AK like a book. River comes trash, he reaches for his chips, then looks at me, and checks. I check, just because EVERY card on the board paired up would have beaten me. I turn over my cards and said "I have a pair" because I knew it was good. He mucks. Not a large pot, but a huge moral victory. That player didn't mix it up with me again the rest of the afternoon.

[lork]

I simplify it this way for my thinking...

I want 5 times my bet in the pot to see the flop with a low pair...

If I'm fairly certain that there will be at least 4 or 5 other callers, I'll call with low pair...


If I'm worried about a raise... I want to be fairly certain that I'm at a table where the raise won't drive many away...

[ballen]

i'm always afraid of a higher set flopped

i was playign 55 from EP, button had 88, no raises 6 people see flop, flop comes A58 rainbow, i'm estatic... both of us slow played 'em and after blakns on the turn and river, we cap on river, should i just 2 bet on each street w/ this kinda hand in a .50-1 game? this was one of the first few games, and the 88 guy always saw the floop for the last 13 hands i was there....

[jhasper]

I will play any pair from early position if the game is passive enough. Otherwise, I'll do what you did and kick them in (if i feel there's a good chance for a raise). The key is being willing to release the pocket pair right away on the flop if you know you're beaten (which usually is the case w/ all overcards and many people seeing the flop).

[chris]

Well I generally don't play small pairs under the gun. Apart from the fact that you don't know whether the pot will be raised, and whether it will be a multiway pot with any certainty, you will also not be able to extract as many bets into the pot when you hit, when you have bed position. Even in a lose passive game I tend to dump them in early position, play them down to 6s when the situations are right and play them down to 4s when the right situations occur from late positions. Deuces and treys I rarely play under any conditions, as my stats tell me that I lose playing them.

In a loose passive game position is very important, as there are a lot of hands where you should take a peek at the flop from late position when you can get in cheap in a family pot. Position is not only important because it helps you to determine with greater accuracy when the situation dictate a call with a marginal hand. It's also very important as it helps you manipulate the pot size on later betting rounds. This means that you will win more with the same hands from late position compared to early pos.

When it comes to NL this picture changes a lot as you have great implied odds. But implied odds are seldom big enough in a limit game to be a deciding factor in solving a problem.