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ballen



Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 42

456 credits
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:11 pm    Post subject: another KK situation Reply with quote

This was a SnG at Paradise.

Blinds were at 10/20, I had about 950 chips. UTG, I got dealt KK. I raised it to 80.
There were three callers.

Flop: 5JQ rainbow

The BB who called the raise acted first and bet out 150, and I re-raised and went all-in.

The other two folded and the BB thought about it and called with AQ.

Turn: A
River: 2

One of the players then said, "why do people rely so heavily on pocket pairs so much?"
I told him I had the over pair on the flop and it was the best hand going to the turn.
Then he says, "that was a bad play." He told me I should slow play and call next time on the flop to see if an A came up on the turn, and then fold if there was one. He said "aces always turn up on the board". Ugh, whatever.

Naturally, I was heated after that beat, but I was wondering what the right play would've been or what other people would do in that situation at the flop.

Pre-flop I was a 72/28 favorite.
After the flop I was a 80/20 favorite.
Oh well.
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arcfinn



Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 21

355 credits
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your play was fine, ignore the idiot and continue with your own play. He wasn't involved anyway, so he should be quiet. As for the play itself, your move was fine, the board contained nothing scary or that you thought could beat you, and there was more than enough in the pot for you to move all in and take it down right there. I'd have done the same thing with K-K, and it's the correct move. In addition, the guys call also was correct, he had top pair top kicker on a dry board, he had to figure he was good. He called, you had gotten your money in with the best of it, and you got drawn out on. It sucks, but rest assured that you'd win 4 out of 5 times this happened. Even going to the river, you still had 6 outs (K or 10).
As for what the guy said about pocket pairs, he IS right, but this isn't the situation to criticize. I feel this more stems from him seeing instances of people with 4-4 or 6-6 calling down to the river with two or three overs on board.
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ballen



Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 42

456 credits
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, your play was fine. I might have raised a bit more pre-flop... would rather have only 1 caller.
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chris



Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 41

411 credits
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you played it fine, but let's see:

you ppK
them AQ

You raise 4XBB. Well at least you raised to show strength, a bigger raise would have been better, but I'm ok with your play.

board 5JQ rainbow

Them bets 150, and you reraise allin. Considering not much of a fl dr, and str draw possible, you with top pair want to drive them out. The fact they doubled your PF bet, might make you think of 2pr, but they just had top board pr. You made the right call here. But what if you just called the raise.... Let's see the turn, A, ruh roh! Them should definitely bet into you bigger again, and you can lay em down, but you have, what, 720 chips now, and are even shorter stacked. You still alive....

Much like the Matterhorn states, don't slowplay ppA, or ppK, they can only be diminished with board cards.

I think you did the right thing, went allin with best hand. Think of it this way, when them called the allin and saw your ppK, vs board QQ, them probably had a very sinking feeling. I think them made right call here also. Top board pr and overcard is a pretty good hand also. They didn't suck out, but they did hit their kicker, and that happens in poker baby!
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ballen



Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 42

456 credits
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies.
Yeah, it was probably just one of those poker beats. The other player probably would have called a larger raise I think with AQ anyway, and saw his pair with the A kicker, and probably would have ended up the same way.
What irks me is that other guy who wasn't even involved in the hand, saying that it was a bad play. Oh well, time to move on.
Thanks for the input.
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jorpot



Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 15

77 credits
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

waiting for the ace on the turn is probably one of the worst piecs of advice i have ever heard.
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pritz



Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 31

267 credits
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jorpot wrote:
waiting for the ace on the turn is probably one of the worst piecs of advice i have ever heard.


Two thumbs up jorpot.Well said.I agree with your comments.
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lork



Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 44

311 credits
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You got all your money in with the best hand, and were about an 80% favorite to win. He had five outs and a backdoor straight draw (you had one too-the turn actually gave you 7 outs, about 16% chance to win). Of course you couldn't know exactly what he had, he could have had QJ or a set, but chances are you were the favorite. Plus there was a very good chance to win it there with no showdown. Your play was fine.
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easyguy



Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 11

216 credits
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah that guy is stupid... you made the perfect play. with an overpair ur goal is to get the person with top pair all in and thats exactly wut u did. so he got lucky. so wut? u cant do anything about that.
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johnf



Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 36

464 credits
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

with pocket kings or Aces... if I'm not all in before the flop... I'm going all-in on the flop... there are just too many ways to outthink myself later in the hand
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